Language barrier

[miss-lillipants]

This is another trope I really love in a size context. I think language and being able to communicate easily is one of the biggest things most people take for granted in the real world, let alone in a fantastical situation.

I’m not one to subscribe to the whole “too small/big to communicate, sound frequencies, etc.” except for the really massive size differences (like micro, nano, giga, etc.) - I like dialogue between a giant and a tiny, but when something else like a language barrier gets in the way, you’d be forced to compensate and get creative. Broken speech is usually a obvious go-to, but there’s also opportunity for the use of more physical forms of communication: signing, touching, body language, facial expressions (and reading them). By being so physical, it’s a great opportunity to emphasise their size differences: how closely the giant has to focus on her, or how big she has to make her movements; both the giant and tiny’s perspectives on their interactions and each other’s features.

Like with other tropes, it’s a very flexible one. It could also be applied to situations where either the giant or tiny is mute (maybe both!). One scenario I had I mind involves both giant and tiny being unfamiliar with each other’s language and there’s no easily accessible translator (maybe both peoples are isolated from each other, maybe one is other-worldly, etc.) And they both slowly pick up and learn from each other as they spend more time together. As a point of tension, maybe the giant is able to find another giant who can help, who is a bit more fluent than he is, but they end up making the tiny really uncomfortable. Being unable to understand, he doesn’t catch a lot of what the other is saying, but he notices something off about the tiny’s body language and gets them out of there.

From a creative/author perspective, I think it’s a fun little project. Personally, I’m not fluent enough in another language to make it reflect the real world, and I’m not invested enough to invent a language (let alone two) as an alternative. Instead, it would switch between POVs, with the other person’s dialogue being presented as garbled symbols. The POV character is able to catch the occasional word, with dialogue getting more coherent over time as both of their vocabularies grow. And throw in accents, for good measure

[blehb]

@miss-lillipants I’ve actually been playing around with a similar story idea where the tiny doesn’t speak at all. They do understand the giant, but there’s still the obstacle of her trying to communicate. It creates a lot of interesting scenarios and I’ve really enjoyed brainstorming for it.

Now I actually have to write it.

[Olo]

@miss-lillipants This reminds me of one of my favorite tropes. Sometimes a giant has a SW totally enclosed in one of his hands, and for whatever reason he doesn’t want to release or reveal her. This happens often enough that they develop a kind of semaphore, where he communicates through combinations of gentle squeezes on certain areas of her body and she responds with pre-arranged sequences of contortions.

This can occur in other areas of the giant’s body, but he can only really effectively reply through his hand and fingers.

[foreverlurk]

@miss-lillipants When you’re part of a linguistic minority, you learn quickly not to take your language - and culture - for granted!

I love the idea of communication across the boundaries of language (and, unsuprinsingly, size). What I can imagine is a three inch tall mute woman trying to sign to me, but she’s too small for my poor eyesight to catch her signs - or I don’t know BSL/ASL.

So, plan B : she starts to trace the letters on the palm of my hand (with a twig or something). That’s assuming we share a common written language, of course. I have no idea how I’d communicate back if she’s also deaf, but that’s a start!

[miss-lillipants]

@blehb said:

Now I actually have to write it.

Would love to read it if/when you do

@Olo said:

This happens often enough that they develop a kind of semaphore, where he communicates through combinations of gentle squeezes on certain areas of her body and she responds with pre-arranged sequences of contortions.

Oh that’s a great method! So covert, very sneaky!

@foreverlurk said:

So, plan B : she starts to trace the letters on the palm of my hand (with a twig or something). That’s assuming we share a common written language, of course. I have no idea how I’d communicate back if she’s also deaf, but that’s a start!

She could also use symbols or drawings as well! Though, as a fun challenge for anyone keen, even the use of images can have it’s limitations: not all symbols or pictures will mean the same to other people, let alone someone from a different culture. So without a mutual understanding, you’re bound to hit some walls sometimes. I like to think about the icons developed for the Olympics as an example - you still need some form of reference in order to understand what they mean.

N.B. I’ve been made aware that I posted this around the same time another discussion on the same topic was being held on Discord. It was a total coincidence because I don’t use Discord for size stuff, but it made me laugh and happy to still be involved in other group discussions - even if it is through the ether

[littlest-lily]

@miss-lillipants said in Language barrier:

N.B. I’ve been made aware that I posted this around the same time another discussion on the same topic was being held on Discord. It was a total coincidence because I don’t use Discord for size stuff, but it made me laugh and happy to still be involved in other group discussions - even if it is through the ether

The timing was indeed uncanny! Haha, I’m like who else here is undercover from SFW servers

I love the idea of language barriers as an added difficulty alongside the size difference. One of the stories I’ve actually started (and thus hope to actually finish) involves a deaf character. I’ll cut myself off there, but I intend for most of the story to revolve around communication barriers.

But another idea on the list that I don’t necessarily see myself getting to is a girl who shrinks while camping in the woods near the French Alps. She’s relieved to finally get a hiker’s attention… only to face the frustration of him being an American tourist!! He hardly knows any French and now she wishes she’d paid closer attention to her English classes lol.

I’m loving these communication ideas that are more tactile! Drawing symbols in his palm… communicating via gentle squeezes or Morse code tapping or whatever else… yes please! More touching! 🥰

[foreverlurk]

@littlest-lily said in Language barrier:

He hardly knows any French and now she wishes she’d paid closer attention to her English classes lol.

Oh you know I love this idea!

If i could run away with it, I would set this in Canada as it would be relevant to our own IRL language issues that have been ongoing between French and English for generations here.

It could bring an interesting personal layer to a situation where they not only have to work out some way over the language barrier, but also overcome their own prejudices towards one another’s cultures.

[littlest-lily]

@foreverlurk That’s a great idea! I’m not sure how well I’d be able to tackle it since I’m not as familiar with the culture barriers in Canada.

…Now if only I knew someone who did 🤭 hehe

[Olo]

@foreverlurk Great idea! A French tiny wouldn’t be able to understand a thing in Quebec.

[foreverlurk]

@Olo said in Language barrier:

@foreverlurk Great idea! A French tiny wouldn’t be able to understand a thing in Quebec.

Ha-ha-ha. Very funny. /s

Used to be true but less so, maybe because the Internet exposed more young francophones to other French accents out there.

[littlest-lily]

@Olo Even when I was a kid I could understand my little cousins from Quebec!.. Most of the time…

[blehb]

I hope it’s okay to revive old threads- if it’s not please let me know!

I was thinking back to this topic and thought about what a cool roleplaying scenario it would make. (I feel like we discussed this more from a writing POV than a roleplaying one.) Imagine roleplaying where you can’t have any dialogue: maybe you just replace it with gibberish to represent the language barrier. Or maybe both characters are mute or their size doesn’t allow them to understand each other.

Even better if you go into it with only the bare minimum established beforehand (obviously things like boundaries, setting, etc). Each participant has to figure out what kind of person their roleplaying partner is, and the lack of understanding makes things even more confusing yet surprising.

It seems really unique in comparison to approaching this as a sole writer, where you know your characters and the structure of your story. I don’t know, just wanted to share this thought.

[foreverlurk]

@blehb Thread necromancy is legal in these parts, I think!

I’ll admit this scenario has been on my mind, too. I’m really tempted to steal Lily’s idea and adapt it to a Canadian/Quebec setting. I might have even an outline of that potential story

Roleplaying wise, I love the idea of going in “blind”, full meta and not using English (or any language both partner know) for anything other than scene or action description. All dialogue in native tongue, only (and no cheating using AI translator!) Complex because it requires bilingual partners that don’t actually share a common language… hmm, I don’t know if it’s an invitation but that could be fun.

[blehb]

@foreverlurk said in Language barrier:

Complex because it requires bilingual partners that don’t actually share a common language

That was my first thought too, which is why I was thinking all dialogue could be replaced with absolutely anything. As long as each person keeps track of what their own character is saying, it gives the same impression as not being able to understand the language,

For example: The tiny woman stared up at the giant captor, fighting back tears as she clasped her hands together and softly said “Ni nathathol?”

Works for me because I know what I’m saying. I just have to hope my partner doesn’t understand Sindarin.

[littlest-lily]

@blehb If you really wanted to be vague you could indeed write anything - just completely make up gibberish or even describe the sounds without writing any words. I’d imagine the process of problem solving with body language, miming, drawing, one leading the other somewhere, etc etc would be the bulk of it anyway so there might not be that much to keep track of in what is said.

I love the idea by the way! This feels like it could be so fun even outside of G/t. It’s like a mystery where no one knows all the answers.