Rejection fuels Non con: Opinions?

[tiny-ivy]

@giant-me
This definitely isn’t true for me.
My kinks and my romantic side are mostly separate. The part of me that likes real-life romance and romance fantasies is just a different part of me than the part that is into nonconsent fantasies.
It’s like one’s my libido and one’s my heart.
I have absolutely no idea why I’m into cruel giant scenarios. Maybe it’s some twisted part of my brain where the age-old, amoeba-deep don’t-get-eaten instinct is turned into a get-eaten impulse?
Where my kinks come from don’t HAVE to make sense. I don’t really have faith in Freud at all, he had a lot of dumb ideas about the subconscious that have no basis in science, so the idea that anyone with violent ideas secretly wants to be violent just does NOT ring true to me.
I come more from the cognitive behavioral therapy side of self-care: if it isn’t causing me problems, I don’t care, and where the thoughts come from doesn’t really matter, as long as they aren’t damaging me or others.
I know I’m talking more from the sub side, so I’m speaking from a more morally ‘defensible’ position, but the idea that this isn’t a hidden real desire is as true for doms as it is for subs.

For example, my nonsonsent fantasties in this space often include the main character dying, or being trapped. In real life, I would fight tooth and nail, with every fiber of my being, with inner strength I am not even aware of, to stay alive and to avoid being trapped / imprisoned.

I think that if you’re a dom, you have to let go of the guilt that comes with that. Part of that is by not trying to tie your dom fantasies to real-life justifications - don’t psychonalyze this part of yourself, because it’s unscientific and just a detailed form of self-hatred.
We don’t really know why we’re kinky in this bizarre, fantasy way. As long as you only play with this fantasy with consenting adults who are also into it, it truly doesn’t hurt anyone. It’s not some glimmering id sitting at the base of your brain wishing it could lash out based on previous ego injury. That’s just a lingering fear of yourself.
You’re good. Yes, you’ve experienced rejection, we all have. That isn’t why you have this kink.

[green]

bro I just like to imagine scenarios of size mixed with nonconsent because I’m good at it and I like it. This discovery didn’t happen in a vacuum or was something I knew about myself right away - I found this out by trying it out. This could only could happen with the love, encouragement, patience, and curiosity of those around me. Dwelling on bad feelings like rejection and loss just bums me out and makes me not care about creating anything.

[Mrgoblinging7]

Ok, time for me to overshare.

I think I’ve always had that side of me, those more pleasant than they should be thoughts. It was only when I started getting older that I started to realize that some of the things I liked were best left unshared. As my morality started to become more solidified, I couldn’t help but feel less than human because of what I liked, like I was what was wrong with the world.

And when I got into therapy and started talking about my family history, that fear was more or less confirmed.

I don’t like other people suffering because I was rejected, It is just what I am.

I don’t savor the terror I inspire directly or indirectly because of rejection, I was literally built to like how it tastes.

I am everything I feared I was growing up. Sure my therapist tells me that I am not a bad person, that me using my inner darkness in my creative works is a good thing. And my SO does tell me regularly that they love me for the good man I choose to be. It is really hard not to see myself as some real-life horror movie waiting to happen.

Nothing triggered it, nothing made me like I am, it grew with me. And I while I know I am the good person people say I am, I never can get rid of the fear that I’m only as good to others as I am because I’m just trying not to be the monster I was born to be.

And that is enough feelings for today, goodby!

[Giant me]

@tiny-ivy I have an inquiry and curious mind I tend over analyze things looking for a reason behind the curtain of the subconscious, so thank you for an honest view to put things in perspective for me. Sometimes a kink or fetish has a reason or doesn’t, I see my own violent tendencies as an unknown territory, so I want to work through my dark side to understand it better, and why others dark sides exist, I see Freud’s discussion of the super-ego/conscience, Id/selfish desire, and ego/the self is an interesting possible truth, the good, selfish, and middle ground of what we do, and how we react to the real world and our fantasy world. I try not to self loath, I look for a positive side, but I’m reminded of an old thinking of the wolf/bear/ good or evil we feed the most determines our motivation in life. I want to be self-aware, and mindful of others points of view.

[Giant me]

@green I go through bouts of depression, and other people are my saving grace, I create content based on my emotions and my state of mind, and what excites me most. Non con is my dark side, like enjoying a horror or sci-fi movie on a sexual level. I search for the good/positive side of most things, but I keep going to a dark place to create art. I am good at it as well.

[Giant me]

@mrgoblinging7 Thanks for sharing that, I feel the same, I could be a great monster/villain if my dark side had full control, but it doesn’t, I strive to be honest and decent, kind, and empathic/sympathetic to my fellow human beings. Having an outlet to express inner feelings dark or light is seen as normal, like venting frustration and anger, it is seen as healthy to let it out somewhere.

[Olo]

It’s one thing to reconcile your non-con and other unsavory fantasies in your own mind, but it’s something entirely different when you set about sharing and discussing your fantasies with others, let alone creating imagery or stories featuring those elements. I quite sympathize. It’s been almost nine years since I first wrote a size fantasy story with the intent of publishing it for others to read, there were decades of feelings isolated and perverted before that, and I still struggle with it sometimes.

Even now, when I write about non-con and fatal vore, I pause to worry about what kind of ideas or messages I might be putting out into the universe. Aren’t women sexually-objectified enough in our society? Are they then nothing but toys or food to me? I’m also a bit nervous of exposing shameful parts of myself. What kind of self-respecting man has to put a woman literally under his thumb?

Given the nature of porn and online communities, it is all-too-easy to get the impression that kink spaces are pure sausage fests, and far too many dudes appoint themselves gatekeepers and try to impose their own views on any women that voice their opinions. This is tragic, as what kinksters need more than anything else is the validation that only comes with a diversity of experiences.

I only started to feel better about myself and my desires after listening to others with similar desires share their thoughts and feelings. Specifically, I am deeply grateful to Jit and all the other female size fantasists who have expressed how powerful their size desires are, from the most sweetly romantic to the most depravedly cruel, taking the roles of both predators and prey.

Everyone comes to size fantasy by a different path. Many of us are indeed working out “issues,” but the meanings you discover in or assign to your fantasies is wholly within your control. There’s nothing wrong with exorcising your bitterness or heartbreak through dark fantasies, and there’s nothing to be ashamed of enjoying dark fantasies without having a traumatic “cause” for them.

The important thing to remember is that your mind is an immense place, full of things wondrous strange, and you are so much more than any of them.

[Giant me]

@olo another very thoughtful and sympathetic response, I gave pause to starting this post thinking where is my head at, and why do I need to share this? Well I’m glad I did. I enjoy knowing I’m not alone in this feeling, and need for understanding. I’ve enjoyed every response thus far. I have a need for validation and affirmation in my thoughts, in kink or fetish no one is at fault it just is, we enjoy what we enjoy, sharing it and validating with like minded people, it is good for us. I find myself going through the motions and emotions working through issues needing more interaction not less, it’s a good thing.

[Olo]

@giant-me Jit expressly created this forum for M/f fans to have a place to share their darker thoughts and fantasies. Even I have to remind myself of that occasionally.

[Giant me]

@olo I’m reminded life isn’t all puppy dogs and rainbows. This is a great outlet for the dark, most forums separate the darker stuff/VSW category, still the lighter side is appreciated very much as well on equal fronts.

[Olo]

@giant-me A puppy dog could do horrific things to a three-inch-tall woman.

[Giant me]

@olo Indeed from mistress to human chew toy status.

[i am insane]

All dark macro/micro? No… But I could see some. If I had to guess at a single cause for the desire that kind of fantasy, as a whole, it would probably be… helplessness. You feel weak, so now you fantasize being strong, or perhaps that you don’t have to worry about things because someone is protecting you, or you’re just not in a situation to worry about People Things because you’re not a people.

Thing is, that comes in a lot more flavours than just relationships.

I’ve had many, many problems in my life, and a good portion were from people, sure; who hasn’t? But those weren’t the problems that defines my problems, if that makes sense. Mine, for example, is my body, which is fucking pathetic (For context, I’m now in recovery from another major surgery! Just got back to work recently and I’m still trying to get my body back to normal, and to get my muscles less atrophied from all the not use they were getting), and it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to realize that that is why I lean towards GT fics, or stories where the growth/shrinking doesn’t come from a ray gun or something external: because in those stories, I, or the character I sympathise with, is powerful, is strong in their own rights, and not because of something external, or because someone else is weak but ‘I’ am still normal.

I fantasize, of course, and while there’s a non-zero amount of me/a proxy causing pain, tormenting, killing, just because I can, I tend more towards dehumanizing, New World Order stuff. Honestly, that stuff bothers me a lot more than just the simple ‘Haha I eat you’ urges, even if the me in them are actually rather kind, because… well, look at what happening these days. Those fantasies are basically the Handmaid’s Tale, but more sexualized and size related and without the Christianity undertones.

Being sadistic, pop culture teaches me, is actually somewhat common, if never talked about, with the implication of, ‘well, as long as you’re not a serial killer about it that’s probably fine!’. In sitcoms and dramas every once and awhile you’ll see a character suddenly being a kinky dominatrix as a surprise at the end of the episode or whatever, and sometimes that’s bad but it’s never bad unless you actually hurt someone, you know? Wanting on some level to legit take away women’s rights just because they’re women is a completely different animal. Even if I don’t actually want that, the fact that some part of me does… isn’t exactly pleasant.

This is extra frustrating, though, because I know I’m not the only one: on the SW end, the Sylph setting is perhaps the most common in our culture as a whole, and there’s more stories like it besides. On the GTS end… ye dying gods, do you know how many ‘Men are shrunk/women grew because Reasons, now males are lesser beings/pet’ stories I’ve seen? So fucking many. And half the time, if they aren’t being flat out tortured the man will be happy, of course, because they can touch giant boobs or whatever, cheerfully settling into the role of pet as the women almost instantly start going, ‘Oh silly man you can’t do people things! You won’t stay put so I need to keep you in my boobs and/or pockets like you’re a pen!’

All that exists, and I doubt they’re all hoping for real life equivalents of their stories to happen, so clearly that logic should apply to me and I shouldn’t worry about it, or feel extra guilty because my fantasy is more aligned with problems in reality. I know this intellectually, and yet… it’s never that simple, is it?

[Giant me]

@i-am-insane When it comes to helplessness for me it’s about caring for someone, or taking advantage of their situation, so the latter is non con fueled by control to overpower the individual because we can, not just rejection/not being valued as good enough that can cause retaliation/revenge, I can see it is more of a motive not a fuel now. Being weak is a disadvantage, I think women aren’t the weaker sex as they have been called, they are often more powerful than they think, they give birth and put up with us men. I want women to be treated fairly, and kindly IRL. Do I want to dehumanize or objectify them not really, I see them as companions, friends, lovers, but in fantasy it is different, I am a Dominant male, that I sometimes feel that I’m not IRL. I can see your point of view though. Men can be objects and made less than human too GTS and otherwise is a good point too. Thanks for your response, it gave me a lot to think about.

[Jitensha]

First off, thanks @Olo for pointing out that this is a safe space to share these sorts of thoughts!
I’m a tiny lady, so I don’t struggle with the same exact feelings as @Giant-me but I certainly can relate with somethings.

I can’t tell you where my non-con fantasies came from, but it’s something I’ve always enjoyed. A revenge fantasy can be fun - I certainly love playing a brat/bitch and being put in my place! But this is not my personal motivation. It’s totally fine if that’s what you fantasize about though, as long as it’s not affecting your IRL behavior. I know that’s easy to say, as traditionally I’m the receiver of the abuse, but I’m a very ambitious, strong willed, feminist woman. It doesn’t feel good morally to have these fantasies…that part I get.

I’m not sure if your fantasies played a role in your relationships ending, but it at least seems like there was some lack of clear communication. Maybe not sharing enough of your fantasies kept things disconnected or boring in the bedroom. But that’s speculation. The clear fact is that she didn’t feel comfortable enough to share her fantasies with you, because instead of communicating, she turned to another man. Most people in the community under share - which I get. Nobody likes to be vulnerable. She might have had the most boring, vanilla fantasy in the world, and still might feel as embarrassed to talk about sex like the rest of us kinky weirdos lol. I highly recommend in any future relationship, to prioritize transparent communication and unbiased acceptance. There are people in the community who communicate their fantasies, find out they’re not compatible, and they break up. It sucks. But every couple I’ve known like that has moved on to find better, mature, stronger relationships.

The way that I came to terms with my dark fantasies was sharing them with my husband. Not just verbally, but actually engaging with him in the fantasy. Together. My husband has always enjoyed being a smart-ass bully with me, and enjoyed a few dominant non-con fantasies here and there (slapping, choking, free-use, etc), but my size fantasies, and generally my dark fantasies, went quite a bit further than what he was interested in. There are some fantasies of his that I humor, and vice versa. With this mindset, we were able to explore and experience lots of fun, sexy new things we might not have experience otherwise. We’ve found over time that we actually mesh pretty well sexually. While many of our engagements are non-con, my husband is in no way a monster. He is a romantic, thoughtful gentleman!!

Why? Well, he might be waking me up in the morning as he pulls down my underwear and covers my mouth with his hand. But he (1) knows I love it (2) woke me up around the time my alarm goes off so I don’t lose sleep (3) considered if I had work/appointment to go to wherein he might be taking up precious time (4) considered if I was feeling well the night before, am on my period, etc. He’s actually pretty thoughtful!! I live a Dominant/submissive relationship with him, and those provide us certain pre-agreed to rules/limitations for each of us to live by. If he walked up to me right now, held my arms back and kicked my legs open to fuck me, this would be a POSITIVE interaction for me. It’s all about personal preference, there’s nothing inherently bad about it. What you do in your private home with your consenting partner is your business.

When my husband and I are roleplaying, I revel in him treating me like an object or pet for him to do as he pleases. He can choke me out, leave bruises, take a piss right in my face while he laughs, and I love it!! Doing something that’s subjectively bad, doesn’t mean my husband is a bad man! Everything he does is actually with CONSIDERATION and RESPECT for me!! My husband has supported me as a friend and partner, whether that be starting my own business or running my own convention, he’s never held me back from any ambition. He is cool, calm and collected, never loses his temper and always makes time for me. He always considers my opinions, cares about my thoughts and picks me always above anyone else (his family, friends, etc). I also return the respect to him as well. That’s the beauty of communication. Security. Validation. The maturing of our relationship was worth every single uncomfortable conversation.

And I mean, I had a conversation with him once where I wanted him to facesit on me, and I wanted him to twitch his asshole, because it was scarier for me. Like, who has these conversations? Apparently, me.