Does size have the potential of going above and beyond a fetish community?
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There are many different important issues raised by this thread. The comparison to furries is instructive and probably deserves its own thread.
I was about to ask @TakoAlice8 what she imagined size fantasy “going beyond the fetish” would look like, but her recent post clarified that somewhat. “Fandom” was precisely the word I was going to suggest, primarily because it captures that obsessive interest that defies mainstream acceptance. I agree with @AnnDViant that “going mainstream” would almost certainly transform size fantasy, quite possibly losing what fans (both SFW and NSFW) love about it.
Like many long-time size fantasists, I have often lamented that whenever size differential appears in mainstream content it fails to address my personal, fetish-based interests. If size fantasy were to “go mainstream,” I argued, there would be many more opportunities for them to “get it right.” Judging from the SFW G/t folks still on Tumblr, mainstream size content also fails to deliver on the important tropes of what they call their “emotional support fantasy.”
At present, mainstream size content is restricted to children’s stories and fantasy/sci-fi/horror. The “holy grail” would be a size story that is, as Ann put it, more adult and less paranormal. This would create the dramatic space for encounters that satisfy the needs of both SFW and NSFW size fans. For a while some of us entertained the hope that the movie Downsizing would be that breakthrough moment, but we were disappointed (to put it mildly).
I’m no longer waiting on the mainstream media to catch on to this. I’m trying to write more stories that are dramatically adult that just happen to include size differential, with relatable people of different sizes who have complex relationships. I still write the short stroke stories when necessary, of course.
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@TakoAlice8 I love that you posted this, because I actually know exactly what you’re talking about. Maybe it’s because for me personally, while this is absolutely a kink, it’s so much MORE than that - I’d about 90% of the time it’s just a deep interest that might give me the warm and fuzzies but doesn’t make me feel hot and bothered. With that said, I interact a lot with the sfw G/t community, and it feels like almost an entirely separate thing from the kink side. And I’ve thought before that there are similarities between that and the furry community. Lots of young people, lots of acceptance and support for the full LGBTQ+ and neurodivergent spectrums. I’ve seen some cute romance stuff, but oftentimes the relationships between the big and small are platonic friendships, and it’s more about the appreciation of the size difference, the adventures that can come from it, the comfort it can bring someone, etc.
The few people that I’ve told about this side of myself have reacted with various versions of “aww, that’s really cute!” and maybe that’s because I usually lead with the sfw aspect - that I’ve always been really into fairies and wish I could be one - and then add on that it’s also a bit of a kink for me, like a domination thing. One of my friends had at least heard of GTS and was like “yeah, I can understand that,” another was like “omg I love fairies too, that’s adorable!” and was interested in talking about the science side of it, etc. None of these people ended up having the kink themselves, but that didn’t mean they couldn’t find the concept interesting and enticing in some way.
As for something like a convention, I think there’s a bunch of ways people could cosplay for it if they wanted! For Halloween a few years ago I was part of a Peter Pan group - naturally I was Tinkerbell and my husband was Hook lol. It was super fun for me! And if I ever make it to sizecon I’d love to dress up as a borrower. It’s not quite as universal as a fursuit but it’s still possible to enjoy that side of it.
And I think there’s plenty that could appeal to the masses if there was an in person G/t convention. People enjoy miniatures, you can find those kind of exhibits already (just think of all the model train bros). Same with giant things. Areas with small objects, areas with big objects, a ren faire style fairy garden thing, all of that could be fun for anyone. Same with the D&D one shots and room escape that were already at size con. You might see the occasional Arietty or Antman cosplay, fairy costumes, people walking around with figures riding on their shoulder or in their pocket. There are plenty of sfw artists who could display/sell their work, and just like at normal family-friendly anime conventions, you could still have some lewd options in designated areas. I could go on and on with potential ideas. If someone wanted to do some sort of event or exhibit along those themes and not advertise it as a sexual thing, I think all sorts of people would show up.
Do I actually think it could go mainstream? I don’t thiiink so, at least not from the kink side for all of the reasons mentioned. And even from the sfw side I’m just not sure the number of size fans even comes close to the number of furries - I’m not sure how much of that can be altered by simple awareness that the fandom exists. But I don’t think it’s completely out of the question. And even if it’s ultimately unrealistic, it’s just so fun to dream about!!
And I personally don’t think that it would ruin what we’ve already got in the kink community, I think it could all coexist. Maybe if it became more popular, some of it might go down the 50 Shades of Grey route and not be at all what we want, but maybe we would also get some better stories too. That might just be me being naïve though. Like Olo mentioned, I’m not waiting on mainstream media to catch up - there’s already plenty of great content to see and to make, and I’m content with that.
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Speaking as someone who is only into this for the NSFW stuff, that would be really unfortunate. Turning a fetish community into a social circle, then eliminating the sexual aspects, is essentially colonizing the libido and paving the way for marketing campaigns. I use size-based roleplay and writing to express specifically NSFW aspects of myself that do not have any way of being worked into my day to day life. I do not want to be a Puritanical giant living a friendly, happy life with little people. I do not want to be a Borrower living a contented life with a friendly Puritanical owner. I most certainly do not want to LARP these scenarios, especially if it involves expensive A/V equipment manufactured or sold by a corporation taking advantage of a new queer community that was recently pointed out by an economic hitman for aggressive marketing campaigns.
In my size-related fantasies, I am a leering pervert who dominates shrunken women, or a shrunken man waiting patiently for his turn to be eaten. It’s just a cerebral short-circuit that associates pleasure with those situations. Some people just like to be tied up or handcuffed, and I’m jealous–it must be nice to have an attainable fantasy and a community of people who can teach you how to get tied up safely and consensually. That is in principle impossible for the size community. There will never be a real sex shop that sells shrink rays or sex therapists that use them, or encourage their use, in couples therapy. But there are sex shops that sell whips and handcuffs and sex therapists who will encourage that sort of thing.
It’s like suggesting NSFW versions of BDSM. It completely defeats the purpose for those of us who enjoy the thrill of having a subversive and transgressive outlet away from societal expectations. An SFW shrinking story will either be too interesting to be defined by the shrinking aspect. No great size story has ever been written just about size. The best stories use it to illustrate elements of other themes. The Shrinking Man and the movies based off of it aren’t about shrinking–they’re about the society in which an individual shrinks. Gulliver’s Travels is social satire in the form of a science fiction adventure. Taking the edge out of the stories–making them SFW–would still leave us with something quasi-pornographic, at best juvenile entertainment, and they’re not perfect as it is.
Also, 2 things about the differences and similarities between this fetish and the furry community.
- Furries have been relentlessly bullied by everyone who isn’t a furry since the dawn of the Internet. Furry content seems unobtrusive to people who like it, but because they tend to congregate in the same places and support each other, it can become very obtrusive and be actually unpleasant for some people, who will inevitably complain and draw attention to the cliquey/kinky behavior of furries in general. I don’t want to become a target for people who think that this fetish is defined by the behavior of its most vocal participants. There are reasons that some of us “stay in the closet” about this with everyone but our closest partners. There is a lot of overlap in the furry and LGBT communities, which means that there are occasionally situations where a woman’s body isn’t involved at all in the objectification. That is probably a part of what makes the furry community feel safe for the women that participate in it. Not true for the heterosexual community. I know lots of straight women who don’t like being objectified by men. Leading into my second point…
- There’s a thing called the male gaze that is more relevant here than in conversations about the LGBT or furry communities. I don’t want the women around me to know that I fantasize about them being very small or very large, which is what would happen if I started wearing a “Size Pride” patch or something to identify with the community. Whether it’s shrunken women or giantesses, it’s hard to explain that you’re attracted to the idea of growth or shrinking instead of the actual body in front of you (or both, as the case may be). It just isn’t something that you necessarily want to put out for everyone to know. Hiding erections is a socially normal practice for a reason, and we’ve had #MeToo for years now. There is a specifically heterosexual awkwardness to the feeling, best summed up by The Simpsons’ Troy McClure:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e5oBBziEl8E
“Are you gay?”
“Gay? I wish! If I were gay, there’d be no problem! No, what I have is a romantic abnormality, one so unbelievable that it must be hidden from the public at all costs…”The point isn’t that gay people have more problems than us. Rather, we don’t actually share any kind of common struggle on the level of LGBT oppression. For that reason, nobody’s going to advocate for the rights of size fetishists. The consequences of coming out are also nowhere near as bad as they still are in some places for being gay.
“Oh, you like short girls? That’s not weird at all.”
You’d have to go out of your way to get weird looks for some of this stuff. Even the giantess fetish has some fairly obvious appeal, even if you need imagination to realize exactly how big a “giantess” is supposed to be.Finally, it seems like a case of glass houses. We (speaking specifically for cishet users of this site who come here for the cishet content it hosts) don’t need a community in the way that LGBT people do. LGBT advocacy is literally life-saving. Children are still routinely kicked out of their homes for being gay. The people who throw them out of their homes typically believe that they have to worship a giant who lives in the sky if they want to live forever, in a cruel twist of…something. Nobody is lynching us for being into size stuff. Nobody is discriminating against us in the job or housing markets. There is no need for us to form the interest groups and organizations that would lead to closer association. We really shouldn’t try to find a need, either, because that’s just asking for trouble.
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@subasubaski This is a very interesting perspective to read, and you bring up some points that I haven’t thought about (like capitalism getting in the way of this if it gets too popular). I do also need the reminder that in my own social bubble, people are very accepting - to my knowledge, none of my friends are furries, but if the topic of furries comes up, everyone is like “eh, that’s cool, whatever makes them happy.” Society at large is not always so kind, far from it.
I’m not sure if I think it’s completely fair to say that interest in size is purely a fetish community though. There’s such a wide spectrum of preferences among people - you may not enjoy a friendly, happy life with tiny people, and that’s ok! But I know I certainly do, even within my NSFW interests - I understand the BDSM comparison to some extent, but in my case, for the most part, the kink doesn’t feel like BDSM at all. Plus the SFW side has existed for just as long as the NSFW side, and I’m personally so glad for it, otherwise I might not have figured out this part of myself to begin with. I’ve had an interest in being tiny for as long as I can remember, and I recall being a kid in the early days of the internet and coming across some giantess NSFW sites that I was absolutely too young to see. It was honestly a little traumatizing and I almost just started repressing this side of myself altogether. It was then such a relief to find a sfw community and be able to explore the interest as a nonsexual one before it eventually matured into a sexual one.
I dunno, just wanted to share my perspective! I do see where you’re coming from though, considering your own interests within the fetish.
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OoOohhh I’d love a Size Pride patch to wear! I would be sad if people didn’t ask me about it.
Hey! … ya see this patch right here?¿ Well I’m gonna tell you ALL about it even though you didn’t ask
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@littlest-lily there’s definitely a place for SFW content, I just don’t want to have to feel like an outsider for enjoying NSFW stuff. I definitely have had some traumatizing experiences from this fetish, but not nearly as much as I’ve had from the community that would associate me with it were I to start identifying as a size fetishist.
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@Olo OMG YES
️ !!! -
I’m just gonna leave this here…
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@TakoAlice8 I feel like I’ve been having this discussion for the last 25+ years. Mostly because I’ve been having this discussion for the last 25+ years.
I remember when all of the size-related FTP and Usenet pages, that had been started by and run by gay men were suddenly besieged by a sudden flood of people who were absolutely new to the internet (thank you so much, AOL) who screamed "What’s with all the gay shit!!!). And I was around when the furries decided that “microphilia” meant “furry” and we couldn’t have and SW mIRC channel without including any sort furry content that they wanted to post. Yes, furries can be bullies too.
Historically, the worst offenders have been associated with the GTS/SM fetish. Some of the people in that community react to SW stories and images as if it were kryptonite. Note: I am NOT saying that ALL of them are like this but enough are that I will have no longer have anything to do with those communities. They will gleefully gang up and troll you to the ends of earth.
History lesson over… Since many of us (myself included) are here for the NSFW side of things, there’s a double barrier. Today even R-rated movies are very rare. This is a very, very socially conservative time. Good look at movies from the 80’s, you will see a lot more T&A. So, not only does the mainstream not ‘get’ the size kink but mainstream society in the 2020’s are fucking uptight and prudish.
Finally, most of us have more than just the size kink going on. There are lots and lots of variations on the theme. Size range is one we talk about a lot. I adore women from 15"(38cm) up to 48"(122cm). Most of you probably prefer you SW to be somewhat smaller. Then there are the side tracks: crush, vore, anal vore, insertion, diapers, scat, body inflation, spanking, feet… the list goes on. Which is why I use that lovely “Ignore” dropdown on about 90% of the posts here. I don’t judge but I don’t need to see what I don’t wanna see.
So, I think size kink in the mainstream might be a great idea in principle. If we could take CGI technology back to the 1980’s we come crank out some awesome movies. Younger Sally would have been happy to write the screenplays. But today we have the net and the but everyone is scared shitless that they are going to offend somebody. We aren’t likely to see a shift in the culture for some time.
Seeya
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For better or worse, there is no single “size community” and there probably never will be. In the extremely unlikely event that size fantasy ever “goes mainstream,” it will almost certainly focus on a subset of size, leaving the rest of us to complain that we’re not being represented. With the exception of the F/m gatekeeping assholes, I think everyone has a legitimate grievance that their preferences have been ignored or ostracized.
Back when I was on Tumblr, I would frequently see a SFW/fluffy post that I liked and I would reblog it to my blog, which was otherwise filled with graphic size porn. I didn’t quite appreciate at the time that NFSW people who followed my blog would take that as an invitation to start harassing the SFW content creator, demanding that they post or roleplay in an NFSW context. When I realized that I stopped reblogging the fluffy posts, but even when I simply “liked” a SFW post the OP would block me. They had valid reasons for trying to avoid contact with NFSW size fans, but they would also shame them, declaring their SFW preferences to be “pure.” I have heard multiple accounts of similar interactions with SFW size fans, and I think @subasubaski’s concerns are valid.
I think it’s important to remember that when @Jitensha created both SizeCon and this forum, she didn’t want anyone to be excluded (this forum’s prohibition is on F/m content, not F/m fans). She made Daddy’s Dollhouse because she felt that NSFW M/f content (particularly non-con, violent, and cock-featuring content) was being disparaged on other SW sites. At the same time, we also welcome SFW/fluff here, and no one should feel required to engage with or be exposed to NFSW content they don’t want. That’s why we have tags (which should always be used).
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At one point in this thread I was going to refer to a hypothetical “FluffCon.” Turns out it already exists.
All my M/f stories and discussions can be found here.
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@Olo Oh shoot, I didn’t know that
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@Olo Now since I think about it, I agree with what you said, that your not waiting for size to be mainstream. I guess it would be a bad thing since you also said it would be exploited by capitalism. I thought this may be an interesting topic to dwelve in because I feel as if the size community has become so much over the past years. I also wanted to try and predict where this community is headed. You are right about how there is no single size community.
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